Best tools for hand digging deep foundations in clay

Shevek

Can you recommend tools for hand digging (wet) clay? We've got two 2.5 m deep holes to dig (1.4 x 0.8 m wide) and a load of friends coming to help, so I want make sure we've got the right tools on the day.

Thinking some grafter or trench spades for a start. Rounded narrow front edge?

Any particular brands to look out for?

renewablejohn

Get a proper gripping spade it will make life really easy. Plus you cannot break them unlike the shoddy spades you find at most garden outlets.

Shevek

What's a gripping spade?

renewablejohn

Posted By: ShevekWhat's a gripping spade?

A gripping spade is used to dig a drainage trench in clay. Regional variations exist but the newcastle is pretty standard. Blade is narrow only 3-4 inches wide but 18 inch to 2ft long. Bulldog leaflet below shows range.

http://www.bulldogtools.co.uk/products/construction/spades/

Bulldog are not cheap but then they do last longer than a lifetime. One of my spades belonged to my grandfather and is still in daily use.

bot de paille

Try to be careful, people getting buried by collapsing deep foundation holes and trenches are one of the safety risks on a building site. Not to be taken lightly.

Personaly I always found a pick axe most useful for digging out clay, then use the spade to throw the clay out the hole.

Shevek

Posted By: bot de pailleTry to be careful, people getting buried by collapsing deep foundation holes and trenches are one of the safety risks on a building site. Not to be taken lightly.

Thanks, and heeded. I sound a bit casual having some mates round to dig a hole but we'll also have builder of 40-50 years experience on board as well (my old man). We're digging one at a time and shoring up.

Personaly I always found a pick axe most useful for digging out clay, then use the spade to throw the clay out the hole.

True, I made good use of a mattock when I was digging trial pits.

Shevek

Posted By: renewablejohnhttp://www.bulldogtools.co.uk/products/construction/spades/

Seems Bulldog's where's it's at.

Shevek

Good advice here:
http://www.pavingexpert.com/tools01.htm

CWatters

If the hole is that small there will only be room for one man at a time (* two holes obviously). Best plan other jobs for those waiting for their turn to go down the mine so they don't drink all the beer :-)

EDIT: Just noticed your wrote "We're digging one at a time and shoring up." So may only be one man digging at a time after the first few feet if you are using spades?

Shevek

Yeah, one person at a time. For short bursts and then pass the spade I think!

marktime

I think your biggest problem is getting it out of the hole. Last time I dug clay we bagged it in the hole and carried it to the disposal point. You'll be removing nearly 6 m3 of clay which will increase in volume to about 8 m3. Moving that lot should keep your lucky lads busy. :bigsmile:

SteamyTea

Treat it like a trip to a gym, 20 minutes of stretch/warm up first, 20 minute fierce work, 20 minutes cool down, lots of loud music and Sky News with subtitles on.
Or just use this guy's method!

fostertom

'An Officer and a Gentleman'?

Surely a power tool, not mattock, to break the clay up, then shovel it out?

joe90

Wet clay can be cut like cheese. see :-
http://www.screwfix.com/p/spear-jackson-cable-laying-all-steel-shovel/23950#rating_link_anchor

from a review:-
"Using this spade to dig trenches in narrow places and to remove clay in thick slices.
It feels strong to use and does not give any signs of bending....it's from the "neverbend" range by Spear and Jackson although this is not obvious from the product write up.

Shevek

Posted By: marktimeI think your biggest problem is getting it out of the hole. Last time I dug clay we bagged it in the hole and carried it to the disposal point. You'll be removing nearly 6 m3 of clay which will increase in volume to about 8 m3. Moving that lot should keep your lucky lads busy.

I was thinking bucket and rope bug sack's probably easier

SteveZ

A grub hoe is lighter than a mattock and will lever out the clay nicely in lumps to go in your bucket

Shevek

Posted By: joe90Wet clay can be cut like cheese. see :-
http://www.screwfix.com/p/spear-jackson-cable-laying-all-steel-shovel/23950#rating_link_anchor

from a review:-
"Using this spade to dig trenches in narrow places and to remove clay in thick slices.
It feels strong to use and does not give any signs of bending....it's from the "neverbend" range by Spear and Jackson although this is not obvious from the product write up.

Thanks for this one. Sounds good. Bit jarring on the hands perhaps but better than breaking.

Shevek

Surely a power tool, not mattock, to break the clay up, then shovel it out?

Power tool would be too much I think. Good if it was dry and stone hard but it's not thankfully!

joe90

Shevek, It really depends on whether the clay has any stones in it and how wet it is, if not then it wont be jarring because you get nowhere hitting soft clay you have to cut it like cheese, a bit like cutting peat, in some ways this is eisier than ordinary subsoil. Let us know how you get on.

woodgnome

At 2.5m deep you'll be lucky to keep it 1400 x 800.
Just get a mini digger and do it in less than half a day, dig in morning, fill in afternoon.
Where is the spoil going that comes out? Hand digging will leave a massive pile on the edge of the hole unless you are going to move it well away.

Shevek

We might have to go the mini digger route.

Just had a look at the weather and it's still low, going to be -5º over night in North London. Organising the rabble around the weather will be difficult.

Been busting my ass to make sure everything's in place to get going on 23rd only to be thwarted by the weather!

joe90

How deep will a mini digger go?

renewablejohn

Posted By: joe90How deep will a mini digger go?

depends whether it falls into the hole.

My 3 tonne digger will easily dig 2.5 mtrs but it is advisable to use a bog mat at the edge of the hole otherwise you end up with the digger falling into the hole you have just dug as the side collapses.

willie.macleod

Posted By: ShevekCan you recommend tools for hand digging (wet) clay? We've got two 2.5 m deep holes to dig (1.4 x 0.8 m wide) and a load of friends coming to help, so I want make sure we've got the right tools on the day.

Thinking some grafter or trench spades for a start. Rounded narrow front edge?

Any particular brands to look out for?

No question here if there is access for a mini digger - a hundred and something quid will get you your hole dug quickly, you can then get it filled quickly with concrete before it fills up with water and you need to scrape the bottom again...... get your friends to barrow the concrete from the wagon to the hole if they want to help but make the digger do the digging work.

Shevek

So based on weather, possible delay to party wall award, hassle of re-organising everyone for a different date, and H&S risks we're considering a mini digger now.

How can you tell how deep they'll dig? This one for instance, couple of metres?
http://www.erento.co.uk/hire/construction-machines-building-site/plant/mini-digger/7147400627.html

Posted By: willie.macleodget your friends to barrow the concrete from the wagon to the hole if they want to help but make the digger do the digging work.
Good point. Our cheapest (by far) concrete quote comes from local concrete supplier just around corner but they don't have pumps.

joe90

Just ask whoever you are hiring the digger from how deep it will dig!

Shevek

Posted By: joe90Just ask whoever you are hiring the digger from how deep it will dig!

That's novel :wink:

JC48

Hi
You wont go down 2.5M with a micro digger . I think you will need at least a 1.5Tonne ( which would almost do that depth )but much better to go for a 3 tonne as they are much more comfortable than the 1.5 which bounces you around and wants to pull itself into the hole . All that said if you have the access much better than any hand tool .

Shevek

Yeah access is a problem. We only have a narrow path available down the side of our terrace neighbour.

joe90

Go for the biggest digger that will fit through the gap and dig down as far as you can with it , get your mates to dig the rest by hand putting the spoil in the bucket and let the machine lift it out the hole and away, better than trying to throw the spoil out of the hole by hand !!

Shevek

First company I've talked says we need to be a registered business!