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Exposed glulam posts and beams - fire regulations - Green Building Forum

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Exposed glulam posts and beams - fire regulations

Currently my house sketches have a fairly hefty post-and-beam structure exposed internally. (http://edavies.me.uk/2013/09/roof-rethink/) Further re-thinking makes me consider using glulam in this role - e.g., sketches of posts made up of 3 off 44 × 225 mm in a sort of pi shape and beams of 2 off same in L and T form in different places.

Wondering, though, if that's likely to be a problem from the fire-exposure point of view, not having the depth to quietly char the way a solid beam would. Anybody know if it's likely going to be a problem or likely not, or do I have to dig into the building standards a bit deeper?

Single storey (+ loft), Scotland.

(BTW, seems to me that C16 is about £360/m³ whereas the glulam supplier I got a price sheet from seems to work on £850/m³.)

Comments

  • Intumescent clear finish? Stinks bad while being applied. Or a sprinkler system may be
  • Got a friendly Stuct Eng? He'd tell you the principle - can't quite remember myself but quite a slow char rate per half hour to all exposed surfaces, and then the safety factors that are usually applied are reduced to almost nothing to calc remaining strength. It's generally surprisingly tolerant - but makes you use fatter sections rather than tall thin ones.

    Forget intumescents - just beef up a bit.

    Glulam won't be using C16 surely - better than C24 I'da thought. Unless they cut all the imperfections out of C16 and finger-joint them together - but that'll cost much more than C24.
  • edited October 2013
    Posted By: fostertomGot a friendly Stuct Eng?
    Sort of, house designer with associated structural engineering resources lined up but he's busy with other projects for a little while so doodling before serious thought. Could ask him, I suppose, but thought I'd try here first.
    It's generally surprisingly tolerant…
    Good news, thanks. I'll persist with sketches and see what he says. Worst case would be to encase in plasterboard or something but seems a pity - would like the appearance.
    Glulam won't be using C16 surely
    Indeed not - I was just comparing prices. They give all the numbers for Eurocode but say for BS to treat as C27 (“conservatively”).

    Hmm, double checking that I now notice they say a charring rate 0.66 mm per minute. If I understand correctly a single storey house would need 30 min protection (does that sound right?) so if both sides of a 44 mm beam were exposed that'd not leave much (5 mm) left.

    My assumption was that considerably less glulam would be needed than standard timber which would go some way to compensating for the extra cost. Combining that with the better appearance and regularity might swing things towards glulam. Fire protection seems to point the other way.
  • edited October 2013
    That's right, remember now, 20mm charring in 30mins.

    What wd normally be reqd col size say 75x100, after applying normal safety factors, might do at 35x50 without safety factors (holding up just long enough to allow escape). 20mm off ea face of the 75x100 wd give 35x60 - ample! But 75 really is the minimum thickness if exposed to fire both faces.

    Looks better a bit fatter anyway - 44w isn't meant to be seen!
  • edited October 2013
    Thanks for the confirmation Tom. Re-rethink required.

    But any particular reason why not intumescents?
  • edited October 2013
    Thick gloopy coating if 'clear', can be OK if opaque; expense; yet more 'chemicals'; avoidable maybe in this case. In a row of Listed Almshouses, we did Kitchen/stair partitions of 1" T&G & bead moulded planks exposed both faces - v nice - only poss in that case thanks to intumescent paint.
  • edited October 2013
    Yep, they all sound like good reasons why not. Ta.

    Were those partitions “structural” then or was it to protect an escape route?
  • edited October 2013
    Structural in Bldg Regs (fire) terms, which includes all walls as far as I remember; also to improve escape from bedrm upstairs other than coming down into the kitchen; from foot of stair, escape either thro Liv Rm or Kitchen (the job included similarly boarded door into Kit and another from Kit to cellar steps).

    Brings it all back! Excellent standard of incremental improvements over the yrs. Latest is new garden path, curvy with steel/oak handrail and mid-garden sitting out area, awaiting tenders, £12k + VAT! Unfortunately, the LB Officer, having negotiated the path/handrail detail, decided LB Consent not needed, just Planning, so not only did the Trustees have pay an application fee, but we don't get zero VAT as alteration to a LB (now scrapped, but under the transitory arrangements).
  • edited October 2013
    Lively old dears - almost moved in myself, when I was single for a bit!
  • Posted By: Ed DaviesCurrently my house sketches have a fairly hefty post-and-beam structure exposed internally. (http://edavies.me.uk/2013/09/roof-rethink/) Further re-thinking makes me consider using glulam in this role - e.g., sketches of posts made up of 3 off 44 × 225 mm in a sort of pi shape and beams of 2 off same in L and T form in different places.
    FWIW, the engineer on our house has used glulam for the horizontal beams and C24 for the posts. Ours will be hidden in the internal walls behind plasterboard though, so no fire problem.
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