lectric rads ????

dickyv

OK getting there slowly. new build t/frame with u value 0.13 triple glazed. ground floor ashp and ufh and mvhr system. OK so far upstairs mvhr and.... ????????? looking at installing as a fail safe and to be used for that cold 5% of the year electric rads. if this looks like a goer which ones. not as cheap as i hoped, rointe look good and very flashy ad etc but.... tips pointers???? muchly appreciated. oh electric towel rails to keep the b/room warm

slidersx200

The "best deal" I found was on an Amazin website, don't remember the name. Any electric heater with a thermostat and maybe a timer will do the trick for me as hopefully they'll live in cupboard most of the year:-)

Chris P Bacon

Don't know how far advanced with the build you are, but if it is not too late then you could consider designing the ventilation ductwork so that the feeds to upstairs are on a separate leg and then use a water borne duct heater to add some heat to upstairs.

I'd suggest looking at the Adax Neo electric radiators as they are considerably less obvious than the Rointe ones.

Shortened link to Adax on ebay.co.uk

http://goo.gl/PFb2eK

owlman

Possibly the cheapest option, which opens up the greatest choice, both design and size wise, is to select your rad and simple insert a heating element with timer control.

GaryB

The cheapest of the Rointe style cast aluminium radiators are Fondital Blitz - there is a plain and simple thermostatic control version or the fancy programmable digital controller version.

We have specified the Adax Neo heaters (mentioned by Chris P Bacon above) on social housing projects, will have operational feedback in a few months.

All the digital controls regardless of manufacturer appear to be easy to use as on/off and thermostatic but the time programming is very awkward and fiddly.

Kudox are good value for electric towel radiators.

Chris P Bacon

Posted By: GaryBWe have specified the Adax Neo heaters (mentioned by Chris P Bacon above) on social housing projects, will have operational feedback in a few months.

I haven't used the Adax panels either (I bought some cheap £20 wall mount heating panels with analogue rather than digital controls but haven't needed to use them yet).

Adax is a Norwegian brand with manufacturing in Norway and Lithuania, I would expect the quality to be very good. They are widely used here in Sweden.

snyggapa

we used Nobo Series 8 - fairly inconspicuous and uneventful

http://www.credaheating.co.uk/product_details/ph1/index.htm

you need to buy a rad and a control module (either a simple stat/timer or a more advanced radio control model)

you don't get much control even with the top of the range orion control module you only get multi zoned timed on and off - I am currently enhancing ours with a microcontroller to feed into the inputs on the orion to allow remote (internet) control etc of the heaters

dickyv

Smith’s Eco-Powerad 1000 Hydronic Fan Convector Radiator anyone used them..just concerned about noise. is 30db loud? dont know what to guage that against

Gotanewlife

Yes that's loud! Anything 20 or over is noticeable and for many annoying, anything over 25 is simply unacceptable for any length of time where there are people. 15ish is a perfect for am always on fan. Remember dB is a logarithmic scale. All IMHO of course.

Chris P Bacon

I'm no expert on these things but looking at the installation manual it says that it won't run unless the water flow temperature is a minimum of 38ºC which is probably higher than you will be running your UFH at. That presumably means that you can't plumb them from the UFH manifold and would need to have a separate pumped circuit from the DHW tank. But perhaps someone more knowledgeable can clarify?

As for the noise you should check if there are any mechanical switches in them which could cause a click when they are coming on. It doesn't need to be very loud to cause a disturbance in the middle of the night if you live somewhere that there isn't a lot of background noise.

I couldn't find any drawings showing the internals of the heater but if it is like their other heaters then the fan is a pressed light metal cylinder fan with the motor at one end. These tend to pick up dust and lint and will over time become unbalanced causing wear and subsequently noise in the bearings. Probably won't happen within the first 5 years whilst under guarantee but I very much doubt that they will be as quiet when 10 years old as they are when first installed.

romi99

Hi, we spent a week in a cottage where there were dimplex rads linked to a thermostat/timer system, was ok. Then a week nearby where they had electric storage rads, very warm indeed. Imagine very unpopular here!? Wish I could convince OH of UFH.

tony

megga expensive with direct electric, could work out better in combination with a heat pump, an ashp would work out cheaper than either of your options above

SteamyTea

Not really mega expensive is it. All depends on how much is used, and the capital cost is very low. Take that into account and the whole equation changes. Why I am probably going to stick with the combination of storage heater and portable fan heater. It is a lot cheaper than getting an ASHP fitted.
It is the old problem, without knowing how much energy is used, it is all speculation and guesswork.

CWatters

I would install sockets for those electric rads but don't buy the rads until you know if you need them. Perhaps get a few fan heaters from Argos or similar for emergencies.

Some electric rads are very expensive for what they are, especially given that all electric rads are 100% efficient. Timers and thermostats are quite cheap to make so it's hard to justify prices of >£300 as seen recently on one of the shopping channels.

http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/forum114/comments.php?DiscussionID=12917&page=1#Item_1

tony

DIY ashp looks like a good investment at internet prices £360,

SteamyTea

I have looked at A2AHPs at around £300.
If I got 2, and got them installed, would probably be about £1000.
Assuming they can do a CoP of 3, bearing in mind my heating season is shorter than most and I probably only use £150 for heating or about 2MWh/year.
I would still need to put in £50 of juice, so the simple calculation says I will not break even for 10 years.
Now the speculation:
If I invested that £1000 in a long term saving account at 4% (should be possible), after 10 years I would have £1423.
I currently pay £0.07p/kWh for heating electricity, but let's assume that goes up at 4%/year as well, £0.1/kWh (there is no real reason to assume that energy will go up more than inflation over 10 years).
So my 2 MWh will now cost an extra £60/year at the end of the 10 year period (£36/year after 5 years). Over the 10 year period that will be an average cost of £0.84p/kWh

2MWh x 10year x £0.085/kWh = £1700 for my current set up

0.666MWh x 10year x £0.085/kWh = £567 for an A2AHP set up

Saving of £1124.

But that cost me £1000 initial investment to save that, so really a £124 saving and I will loose £423 in bank interest.
So fitting an A2AHP system is going to cost me an extra £299 over ten years.
Not a life changing amount of money (£30/year = 1 cheap meal out).

Real trouble is that I have no idea what future prices will be, if I had said last year (actually I think I may have) that energy prices will fall in real terms, I would have been laughed at at best and ridiculed for talking bollocks (think I was, and often still am by some people).
It is true that I did not think that oil will drop as much as it has, but it will rise again, so the yearly price may well be around the £75-90/barrel, but it was at a unrealistic high for quite a long time at $110-120/barrel (why we have a glut and refining and storage may become a limiting factor).

To counter fluctuations, what housing needs is a combination of all 3 major heating fuels. So you use gas or oil when it is cheap, electricity when flexibility is needed and all 3 when it is really cold.
Don't help pollution any, but if I was designing a new house I would look into it. Totally different for existing stock.

tony

I was talking DIY so labour = zero stacks up ice then and the last one I installed took two hours.

SteamyTea

Unfortunately my house is not simple to fit them. You would think that 2up, 2down was, its the narrowness (3.5m) that is the problem.