Joined up planning (not)

CWatters

Driving along the A14 in East Northants you can't miss the vast new distribution warehouses being constructed. No sign of any solar panels on the roof, but hey never mind.. a local farmer has just applied for planning permission for a solar farm on agricultural land adjacent to a conservation area. Slaps head.

Triassic

Travis Perkins, Asda and Brakes have just built vast New distribution warehouses near me, not a solar panel or a newly planted tree in sight, shameful...

SteamyTea

Is that more to do with ownership of land/buildings than planning?
A lot of commercial buildings are on a long term lease (why our high streets are dying) and the landlords have no interest in adding value.

There are new rules about commercial roof top installations now being covered by permitted development, not sure what real difference it will make though as for every rule we have that says you must do something, there is another one that says you can't.

It would also be hard to try and convince companies that are currently making losses to invest large amounts on PV while they are trying to restructure their core business. i.e. Morrisons, Tesco.

Maybe the best place to get PV fitted on large roofs is on the public service buildings i.e schools, universities, police, fire and ambulance stations, libraries, council buildings (down here they have tried, but hampered with old buildings).

The real simple way to do it though is to tax energy more, higher prices tend to focus the mind.

Ed Davies

Posted By: SteamyTeaIt would also be hard to try and convince companies that are currently making losses to invest large amounts on PV while they are trying to restructure their core business. i.e. Morrisons, Tesco.

I note that the poxy little greenwash turbines have gone from Tesco in Wick and have been replaced by a decent amount of PV.

http://edavies.me.uk/2011/05/elec-island/

Maybe mucking around with this sort of thing is part of why Tesco, etc, are losing out to Lidl, etc. Never seen any “green” on Lidl but I'm sure they would if it made financial sense so, yes:

The real simple way to do it though is to tax energy more, higher prices tend to focus the mind.

Specifically, fossil carbon sourced energy, of course. Mucking about with the planning rules is doing it all back to front.

Still, if a solar farm on agricultural land makes sense why's whoever's financing it (the farmer or somebody else) not talking to the owners of the warehouses?

SteamyTea

Posted By: Ed DaviesI note that the poxy little greenwash turbines have gone from Tesco in Wick

The one in Camborne went years ago.
Stuart posted this up several years ago
http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2523

Posted By: Ed DaviesSpecifically, fossil carbon sourced energy, of course.

Mainly, but raising the overall price would force consumers to use less, then less new generation capacity is needed, which should reduce the investment costs.

Posted By: Ed Daviesnot talking to the owners of the warehouses?

I think they are but just hitting brick walls at every stage. Usually mealy mouthed accountants, who know the cost of everything and the value of nothing.
Not sure how much a warehouse costs to build/rent, but if the cost of putting PV on becomes a significant fraction of that, then it is not going to happen.
Also, many warehouses have very low energy usage, so little benefit for the tenant.

bot de paille

I wonder how insurance companies treat warehouses that have PV on top of them?? Are premiums higher?

If you have a warehouse covered in PV full of valuable goods that catches fire, are the firefighters going to save the warehouse or stand back?

Here in France the fire fighters will let them burn down out of fear of electrocution and let insurers pick up the bill.

CWatters

Posted By: SteamyTeaIs that more to do with ownership of land/buildings than planning?

Probably. But If planning policies can mandate huge earth works to try to screen these large warehouses why cant they mandate or at least strongly encourage PV on the roofs?

SteamyTea

Suppose it comes down to how much planning should have to do with energy infrastructure.
Would be fun to be a meeting, between the local planning office and the local DNO, if planning insists that there must be a new power cable run to a main sub station to take power away from the new development.

djh

Posted By: Ed DaviesSpecifically, fossil carbon sourced energy, of course.

Exactly, a carbon tax.

fostertom

Posted By: SteamyTeaget PV fitted on large roofs is on the public service buildings i.e schools, universities, police, fire and ambulance stations, libraries, council buildings (down here they have tried, but hampered with old buildings)

It's noticeable how extremely common public-roof PV is, 'down here' in Cornwall (just got back with the caravan - sorry I missed you again ST).

fostertom

Posted By: SteamyTeaUsually mealy mouthed accountants, who know the cost of everything and the value of nothing

Another example of the difference between contemptible Accountancy and hard-nosed real-world heroic Economics?

fostertom

Posted By: CWattersIf planning policies can mandate huge earth works to try to screen these large warehouses why cant they mandate or at least strongly encourage PV on the roofs?

And/or on the huge banks?

djh

Posted By: CWattersIf planning policies can mandate huge earth works to try to screen these large warehouses why cant they mandate or at least strongly encourage PV on the roofs?

Because there's law supporting planners requiring money to be spent on noise reduction (and maybe appearance in some places) but no law supporting planners requiring money to be spent on PV?