I am hopeing to have an extension to my property in the near future. Due to this I employed a professional chartered surveyor as a kind of part time advisor / project manager, more than anything for basic support as I am all alone with the project. I have planning permission for this work, a proposed bathroom / utility area, which currently has a small loft room above the adjoining sitting room. I wish to make use of this loft as a small bedroom but the head room is somewhat low. The surveyor originally suggested that the ridge height be raised ( very minimally ) to allow for more height. As this alteration is barely visible compared with the original drawing, and, also as this old cottage is completely isolated standing totally by itself among far reaching fields and hills. ( over a mile off track from the nearest road ) The surveyor told me that I needn't worry about obtaining planning
permission for the slightly raised ridge height. He stated that it is doubtful that any official would even ever notice or even if they did, bother to make a fuss if they were to discover it.
He drew a basic revised drawing showing the new ridgeheight requirement for me to give to builders. He also stated that if the worst came to the worst, and someone did spot the revised ridgeheight that I could always file for retrospective planning and that therefore there was nothing to worry about.
Now several weeks later, He states that this work cannot go ahead without getting a S73. Which I am now told will cost well over £1000.00 and will mean that an architect will need to re -draw up the plans. Originally, this surveyor told me that the slight alterations I had wanted to the plans should cost no more than £150.00 to re - submit through planning ( if needed. ) and that he himself would draw up the revision. I am REALLY struggling with cash complications so my budget for the build is already restricted and a burden.
What should I do ? Do I go ahead regardless and ask the builders to make the spec to the ridge height higher than originally drawn up ,without planning consent ? or do I lose the opportunity for a useable loft room and have the build exactly as drawn up on the original plans, because of a mere technicality ?
The surveyor has already submitted the plans to the archtect who originally drew them up
and he earlier approached the planning office regards alteration works to another part of the property at a future date.
( IF, I can ever afford to have these extra works done ) so they now know about the proposed change.
I VERY MUCH need to know the amount of risk I would be taking if I go ahead with the higher ridge height as I am
deeply worried at the possibility that some official or other might, out of sheer spite, ( could not be for any other reason ) order the extension be demolished and rebuilt for the matter of a very slight variation in height which will make absolutely no difference to anyone other than myself. Any professional advice would be very much appreciated and is needed ASAP please !
Books 
Comments
thanks
RobinB
Anyway we got our plans ammended by simply writing to the planners and asking if we could ammend them. They told us to send in multiple copies of ammended drawings and they wrote us a letter accepting them together with a stamped copy for the files.
How much higher do you need to make the ridge?
An extra 150mm is likely to be no problem and might be possible without PP under permitted development. More than that and it would be wise to check with planning. They may well just waive it through.
is it a planning issue or a building regulations issue. The room will become habitable if you declare it as a bedroom instead of a loft and thus come under the building regs. Also for example there might be issues with access from the room below.
Cheers
Mike up north
Worth looking at this for how height increases are viewed http://www.redcar-cleveland.gov.uk/main.nsf/0/2CDD275110A75ADA802574B4003BDA6D?OpenDocument
Speak directly with planning officer involved and ask for their advice - this is a common occurence as indicated by the article that Mike added above.
Sounds like the surveyor and architect are working together to earn a few christmas drinks!!
RobinB, you were most fortunate to have such friendly and helpful planning people. I will admit,
I hate the idea of approaching anyone for a favour, as I simply fear I will not get it. I am not exactly what you might call the luckiest of individuals ... Mike, I appreciate, what you say about the distinction between declaring as a bedroom or loft. As I was simply planning on using a sleeping bag up there anyway ( I don't much like beds in general ! ) this would hardly constitute a bedroom . I aim to store a lot of of stuff up there also so it will certainly be more of a storage loft than anything else.
Mike George, thank you for taking the trouble to supply a link for me. I have read its contents and, hopefully, it should come in useful. Ali, regarding your comment, I do so hope, it is not as you say, that my advisor is trying to rook me ! He appears to be so nice and genuine, yet I must confess to having had rather more than my fair share of people taking advantage of me, so who knows :sad:
I really have to digress at this point, Robin, You've got me wondering now about that idiom - " from the horses mouth " so I looked it up and apparently ( much to my surprise ) it is a modern phrase to do with horseracing and tipsters. The horse itself being even more knowledgable of its ' form', than stable lads, trainers etc. Personally, my own version would have placed this phrase way back in intiquity. As the horse is such a wonder and inspiration, such a noble and tremendously powerful symbol of freedom, and there is nothing more knowing, more spiritually adroit, more sagacious, than the truly free ......
Better then to listen more often to horses, and less to the folly of man ....
Except of course when taking heed of the special individuals who are giving advice on the Green forum ! :wink:
Not sure what the £1,000 is for - building regs? sounds a bit steep but I recall only paying about £700 Building Control fees and that was for an entire house. You usually pay a percentage of the cost of the works. Is this where the confusion lies?
The veluxes might not need PP anyway as they are probably Permitted Development under class C
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2008/pdf/uksi_20082362_en.pdf
Although have you considered flush fitting conservation rooflights? They are much nicer looking in my opinion.
I like the sound of Flush fitting conservation rooflights, but would they cost more than Velux ? I don't really like to chop and change things too much, as the builders have already quoted for the cost and fitting of the Velux now. Also, although, naturally, I want the very best standard of materials possible. I really do need to keep to as strict a budget as the build allows, so no extra frills.
Ref - The £1000.00 by the looks of the letter, that is only an installment . Looks like it would be more like a couple of thousand or so as the architect seems to want to draw up everything again. Which really does not seem at all necessary. As the plans are already fully detailed and were drawn up and passed ages ago. There is no extreme variation from the original. I have to say, I was pretty surprised and shocked when I received the letter.
Just to say that if it is a non-material amendment [which will be down to the council to frormally decide] Then you will need the following:
4 Copies of the original [proposed] drawing accepted for development
4 copies drawing which shows the changes you propose to make
4 copies of the completed application form Example http://www.redcar-cleveland.gov.uk/main.nsf/0FE16738FCDC6D44802573F50040A9CC/$FILE/Non-material%20amendment%20-%20application%20form.pdf Your Local Authortity will have its own downloadable version of this
The other requirement is that you notify any 'interested parties' [those who own or have a stake in the plot]
I submitted one of these recently and it was very simple. I redrew the original drawing plus the amended drawing and dealt with all the necessary paperwork for £400. Your Architect seems a tad dear.
Maybe worth you contacting the Local Authority involved to see if they will accept sketches and/or description.
One thing , however, is that the local plannng people have already been approached by the surveyor whom I asked to deal with the matter for me. He told me it is they that have made these rather excessive demands. ( the surveyor originally told me the revisions should cost no more than £150.00 to pass through planning ) I am not sure if the architect has yet been in contact with the authorities that be, or not, regards this proposal, nor how well he knows them personally. What really worries me now is that planning might already by now have made their mind up not to be particularly obliging. After all, planning officials are ordinary human beings, same as most people, and in particular in a small welsh town such as the one I am adjacent to, people get very cliquey.
I on the otherhand am a total outsider, living in the middle of nowhere. I do not even have any friends locally to back me up, so it is difficult, and infact pretty alien to me doing all this official stuff. I am here for a quiet life, to seek inspiration from the beauty of nature which surrounds. To grow my own vegetables, to chop my own wood, and to dream my own dreams at night time beneath a multude of vivid stars.....So to get all tangled up with the various authorities involved, is way out of my comfort zone..... :sad:
One concern is whether you have already engaged the Architect to do any other work? Such as overseeing the work and/or providing certification? If not then you have no worries about upsetting him or his clique.
What is a 'slight variation'? How high was the loft room originally, and how high do you plan it to be? What is the size of the loft room? Is it a double pitch roof out over the extension?
It's an old adage in building - changing your mind always costs money. It pays to really understand what you want to do and how you're going to do it before you get stuck in. Not that that helps ignorant self builders like us - we have to bumble our way through the works, finding out the better way of doing things half way through each part of the project.
Also send an email to the surveyor asking to clarify exactly what the proposed £1000 fee is for.
And clarify what stage you are at in the work, both on-site and administrative.
Do you have the building regs compliance drawings? And have you instructed a building control officer to start drawings appraisal and site inspection work towards certifying the building?
Has a set of planning drawings already been approved yet? If so then what date was this?
Do you need an architects certificate for the work?
Was it your original expectation and in the planning application to replace the roof anyway ??
Ali , It was most certainly my expectation ( our expectation, whilst my step-father was alive ) to have the roof replaced. My Step-father applied for planning for an extension to both sides of the property. One side, a very manky bathroom / utility, to be replaced by an entirely new build. This is the side to be raised slightly, in height .
The other extension, (East of the property ) was originally intended to be a downstairs library, with a bedroom with ensuite bathroom above for my stepfather's use. As he is no longer here I have revised ideas for this side with the intention of having a large loft studio upstairs ( exactly same ridge height but with much cheaper velux windows instead of the frightfully expensive dormer windows as originally drawn into the plans, and a spiral staircase, leading up from the library to the loft, instead of the expensive solid staircase designed on the existing plans as wished for by my step-father.
I am more than a little hesitant to post the application number and reveal the council involved. This would mean exposing the architect and the planning officials involved, which simply is not the appropriate thing to do. Not that I could upload anything, anyway ! I have tried hard in the past to post in photo's of the property but they just won't upload. :sad:
The original planning application and building regs etc was fully passed over a year ago I would say. That means there is full planning permission for an extension to both sides of the property. I could, if you wish, copy and paste portions of the letter that I have recently received from the architect. ( when I can gain proper access to my email,it has gone on the blink at the moment ! ) To my mind the procedure seems to be very convaluted, proposing to redraw the entire thing from scratch. Which would mean basically paying all over again, what my step-father has already paid for. Surely such an extensive amount of work should not be required ?
I urge you to pick up the phone and raise all of your issues with the planning department yourself. State your ignorance and ask for advice; that is what they are there for, after all. I had quite a lot of frustrating conversations with our planning officer but she was at the end professional and despite it all helpful. It helps if you know your (permitted development) rights.
We have changed our plans a lot since we got planning permission. All these changes are internal, however, including additional velux windows and our planning dep does not want to know - we were told that was an issue for building control.
In my council, the rules state very clearly that revisions to refused, withdrawn and permitted applications submitted within 12 months are charged no fee at all as long as the character/type of the works remain the same. The scope of your changes would fit this condition. Where the 12 months have elapsed or new applications are made the fee is ca 150 pounds.
In the case of our planning application we did not amend our application as we were advised that as long as the size of the intended extension remained the same, internal changes were subject to building control not planning approval.
Building control was the more expensive cost, depending on the expected cost of the building works. We paid about 650 pounds and will amend after we are finished for the cost of 50 pounds as our original fee includes the cost incurred through the changes.
Our biggest cost so far have been the fees for the structural engineer - ca 1000 pound by now and altogether unplanned.
Your architect's new fees are troubling - I would most definitely get more advice before paying. The cost quoted to you sounds like the cost for the original plans which is unnecessary in your case. Please note that our planning department also accepts hand drawn plans and hand drawn amendments to plans which would not require totally new plans either.
But please, "jump over your shadow" - how is that one for a saying? - and do not rely on other people to act in you best interests. At the very least, next time round, you might not find it so very hard.
Wishing you patience and good luck,
Maren
You don't have to keep battling on if you don't feel up to it. You mentioned the original plans were your step-father's plans and that he's sadly no longer with you. Have you considered selling up and moving on? It's really up to you who live there now to decide what's best in the present cirumstances. In the future (near or far) someone else will come and love and take care of the building I'm sure.
RobinB
It would simply be far more preferable that the cottage was more habitable from the outset. However, I am where I wish to be and have no intention whatsoever of leaving. Yes, building works and all that such entails is stressful but then nothing is perfect in this world. Life is a mammoth struggle in one form or another where ever one might choose to live. My experience anyway, that's the way of things ....
best wishes
RobinB