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Electrical irresponsibility

tony
edited October 2009 in Building Regulations and Standards
The mains backing board has been shot to pieces with woodworm

this happened long before a new meter was fitted

was that irresponsible or what???

how long before it all catches fire? any guesses!

Comments

  • tony
    nother pic
  • chuckey
    Is that a bit of pyro without an earth on it? Also the houses earth should be bonded to the armouring of the incoming cable.
    Its an interesting way of doing things. Is the incomer three phase? because it looks as though two of the outputs are just sealed with a company seal.
    Frank
  • Paul in MontrealPaul in Montreal
    Posted By: tonyhow long before it all catches fire? any guesses!
    How does woodworm make the wood more susceptible to fire? All the wires are in proper junction boxes so there's no more risk than the day the wood was perfect, assuming all the junction boxes and cables are properly rated for the loads involved. Admittedly, it looks ugly, but there's nothing to suggest it's unsafe (excepting the earth comment above) - at least as far as we can see in the photos.

    Paul in Montreal.
  • CWatters
    There is some sort of earth top left but can't make out details.
  • tony
    The boxes are covered in heaps of slightly damp saw dust.

    the weight of the equipment is distorting the board and straining on some of the wires.
  • sinnerboy
    As a min. requirement in Ireland

    "Enclosures for switchgear and for the supply authority’s equipment shall be made of non-conductive material and have a degree of protection not less than IP 55." i.e protection from dust and low pressure water jets

    http://www.sensorsone.co.uk/ip-rating-checker.html

    Now even a novice sparks should be capable of noting that this environment is prone to dampness and consequent wood decay . The gear is liable to suffering strains to all connections as the substrate collapses slowly

    John Wayne sparks
  • sinnerboy
    edited October 2009
    Just noted that the box at the bottom left hand corner has a "fresh patch" of timber over the old . The sparks knew that the old timber was unstable - and left all the existing kit in place . This practice would lead to loss of registration in Ireland
  • bot de paille
    edited October 2009
    when an electrician adds on or renews part of an installation, does he automaticly become responsible for all of it? Hes obviously just done his bit of work on the new fuse box.

    Isnt the bit before the consumer box, ie the main fuse, those black boxes on the right, the property of the leccy board?
    Here in France a regular electrician wont touch the main cut off fuse, it has to be someone from EDF, he can only touch everything on the consumer side of the meter.

    The only way to make good this installation is if you have permission to touch all of the parts.
  • sinnerboy
    Bot , in Ireland - the answer is yes . If he knowingly extends a defective installation - he is in big trouble . He must issue an ETCI ( Electro Technical Council of Ireland ) certificate upon completion . As part of his duty - he must make non invasive tests of the entire ( existing and pre existing ) installation . If there are aspects of the installation that may only be rectified by the ESB ( Electricity Supply Board ) he must advise the client accordinglly .
  • Dantenz
    Posted By: bot de paillewhen an electrician adds on or renews part of an installation, does he automaticly become responsible for all of it?
    Absolutely yes he does. As the last "competent" person to undergo work on site then he carries full responsibility for any non-conformity that should have been noticed at the time the work was carried out.
  • jamesingram
    "non-conformity that should have been noticed at the time the work was carried out. "

    I think this is a grey area.

    The electrician doesn't have to inspect the entire installation if they just carrying out minorworks
    Even if a more detailed Domestic electrical installation certificate is being issued (UK) for additional circuits, board changes etc. only a small percentage of the installation needs to be visually inspected, though a full test of each circuit is required.
  • tony
    What about the supply companies electrician when the new meter went in?
  • jamesingram
    tony, I'd have thought in your example it must be the supply/meter changers responsibility to insure complinance with regs. , best practice etc.
    They either thought it wasn't a risk ( it could be open to some debate as to what level of risk there is, as Paul suggests) or couldn't be bother with the hassle of sorting it out.
    Lots of company heads look like or are in a similar condition to the one shown . Probably a case of minimum sufficiency to comply with standards , dont do anything without a order of works etc.
  • sinnerboy
    edited October 2009
    Posted By: jamesingram"non-conformity that should have been noticed at the time the work was carried out. "

    I think this is a grey area.
    .
    Of course - until damage to persons or property arises . Then a judge , or coroner , may decide .
  • jamesingram
    Just to try to clarify
    Bot's question "when an electrician adds on or renews part of an installation, does he automatically become responsible for all of it? "
    Dantenz comment "Absolutely yes he does. As the last "competent" person to undergo work on site then he carries full responsibility for any non-conformity that should have been noticed at the time the work was carried out. "

    As far I'm aware the electrician carries full responsibility to inform the owner,occupier of any non-conformity that should have been noticed at the time the work was carried out.
    This then hands responsiblitly to the owner,occupier and it is up to them if they wish to act upon it.
  • tony
    It worries me that the supply company has some responsibility in this but that they are not picking up the tab. understandably maybe so then they need pushing or legislating about.
  • jamesingram
    edited October 2009
    I'd have thought it was completely their responsiblilty as the equipment up to an including the company head and meter is owned by them and their the only one allowed to touch it.
    It took me 18 months to get them to renew my supply cable and upgrade to PME in my masonette,
    the old one was fed from the downstair masonette in a conduit using old vulcanised rubber cable which were brittle .
    the earth was the conduit.
    A surveyor ,after 3 months, came round and agreed that is was a potential fire risk and their responsiblity ,
    they then spent the next year denying it was anything to do with them, Until I finally got through to the local manager
    and beat him into submission. The guys that did the job said the all the massonettes (200 odd) had the same problem and as a result would need to be done, they did a few then disapeared !
  • sinnerboy
    Posted By: jamesingramJust to try to clarify
    Bot's question "when an electrician adds on or renews part of an installation, does he automatically become responsible for all of it? "
    Dantenz comment "Absolutely yes he does. As the last "competent" person to undergo work on site then he carries full responsibility for any non-conformity that should have been noticed at the time the work was carried out. "

    As far I'm aware the electrician carries full responsibility to inform the owner,occupier of any non-conformity that should have been noticed at the time the work was carried out.
    This then hands responsiblitly to the owner,occupier and it is up to them if they wish to act upon it.
    Well yes , agreed James . But in my experience - no kidding - on pain of walking off the job I have seen electricians refuse to start or complete works where existing defective works are uncovered . Of course it does not always happen and there are cowboys in all walks of life . But insisting on full certification before payment helps to reduce if not eliminate bad practice .
  • Gotanewlife
    edited October 2009
    That's not bad.........this is bad (note the 30 year old electrical tape joining all the wires - now brittle and not at all sticky!) - last worked on by a qualified electrician a year before we bought the house, ie 5 years ago (in Italy I might add!).

    Off topic a little but MUCH MUCH more scary: last week I was drilling a big hole in the wall for my solar pipes on the top floor (which was left at builder's finish) after a while I looked behind my head and saw 'provision for a light attachment' - ie a dangling wire with bare metal on both forks - can't be live I thought....it was.
  • tony
    Is this OK under part p?
  • tony
    Or this?
  • Mike George
    Nice, is that an inspection sticker on the consumer unit?
  • Gotanewlife
    Nothing terribly wrong with the second one, avg bit'a DIY, would have clipped the wires down myself, especially where they enter the box.
  • tony
    No sticker but I thought good practice not to use entries in the top of the consumer unit and that wires had to protected?

    There is a shower immediately above the socket but I don't think it can point up?
  • cjard
    Posted By: tony
    There is a shower immediately above the socket but I don't think it can point up?
    Oh, so that picture isn't rotated then? The socket's face up on a shelf, not face out on a wall?
  • tony
    yes!
  • jamesingram
    Rental?
  • alexc
    I have pretty well given up on 'Qualified professionals'
    topical example. We ave two groups, some clown on our re-build took all the wires out one group(all wires out of group into house had been removed anyway). So i brought in an electrician, they then wired it all back up so that the group off switch was by-passed.
    I noticed as I am paranoid, I had flicked the group off, but tested for power anyway. Pretty surprised. Worst thing is the electrician wants paying for it....
  • rhamdu
    edited February 2015
    Posted By: tonyNo sticker but I thought good practice not to use entries in the top of the consumer unit
    It is good practice to avoid top entries, but they are permitted. The top of the board has to meet a higher IP (ingress protection) rating than other surfaces.
    Posted By: tonywires had to protected?
    Standard flat cable with PVC insulation + PVC sheath is OK on the surface. Not if it is flopping about, though. So I would have expended a few cable clips, or even a few inches of trunking, on those cables.
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